Minutes of   Committee Meeting

 Monday, 13 December 2021, 2.30pm

Calle Puerto Lumbreras 3, Camposol C6

Present :

Phil Gelling [Chairman] (PG); Jayne Miller [Secretary] (CJM); Gordon Cockburn (GC); Dave

Jackson (DJ);

  1. Apologies for Absence

Colin Barton; Tracey Comper;   Alan Fleming;   Nigel Jones; Alison Lister;   Steve Reynolds

  1. Minutes of previous meeting

Minutes of Committee Meeting held Monday, 8 November 2021, were approved by those present and without comment from absentees, therefore signed by the Chairman.

  1. Matters Arising

Nothing arising not covered by the agenda – Matters relevant to AGM to be covered under item 5.

  1. Treasurer’s Report

Colin Barton reported expenditure of €3472.45 during November. Apart from A6 flyers for the

2025 Team at a cost of €59, the remainder was in respect of invoices from Gerardo Vazquez.  It

leaves a bank balance of €6575.35, PayPal unchanged and cash in hand of €184.73.  Copies of the Vazquez invoices are attached.


Currently stands at 1381 – GC confirmed that numbers are not measured by property but by

individuals. However membership fees will be per property but in terms of voting would be

personal to the individual.

Emails which have been circulated to committee members, from both Gerardo and Maura have detailed the requirement to register the Association correctly. The first step in this process is to

regularize membership of the committee through means of AGM/EGM. CJM had put in process

arrangements for AGM on 8 January. However in view of the rarity for all or even a majority of

members to attend a meeting preparations had been made to allow for an email vote in respect of

committee members and introduction of fees.  In the light of implementation of increased COVID restrictions and the urgency in respect of the voting, it seemed best to pursue an email voting option.  The documents had been prepared, some slight adjustment to the wording suggested and GC was prepared to send out emails in tranches of some 200 supported by the emailing system and had the spreadsheets ready to record replies.

Attempts had been made over recent months to follow the procedure through Tina, who had

proved elusive and difficult to agree meeting dates.

The last correct registration of the Association was 2016 and in view of the lapse of years and

particularly with recent COVID restrictions, there would be an easy explanation for discrepancies and missing committee nominations.

Once the committee are all properly elected and in place GC and Maura will go through correct

procedures for registration and explain discrepancies in between  by movements over the years.

Following the reregistration of the association the aim will be for the next AGM at the normal time in June when all committee members will resign and stand for re-election. Officers will be

volunteers or nominated and appointed at meetings of the committee.


PG is finding solutions to the problems and fixing the present site but not intending to manage it

long term. He has enquired of Laurence terms of CRA contract with them, and has also queried

advertising since there are two aspects to this, which must depend upon the terms of the contract.

There is the element of general advertising controlled by Murcia Today. Their website is massive

with CRA only being a part. It may be that an element of income from general advertising should

accrue to CRA. Alternatively, again depending upon contract terms, advertising within the CRA

section may also be chargeable with the question as to where the proceeds go -possibly shared

with Murcia Today.

The website is multilingual and this element must be protected.  There are complications between background companies;  Certification and renewal is with one company, hosting with another and management by Murcia Today.

PG has now checked through old entries – 300 pages of out of date entries have been eliminated.

MurciaToday have do some maintenance – there is always a delay in getting responses. Laurence

can train but at cost and it will when he has time.

On the matter of a suggested new website, PG recommended not to pursue this. Most problems

are now resolved. What the remainder of the Committee have to appreciate is the complexity of

the website which provides many things to many people. Re-vamping is prone to problems and a

new website will be costly as would be a new hosting contract and ongoing maintenance could be even more costly. Also, current information would need to be maintained and transferred. again an exercise prone to errors and/or costly.  Some plugins which are available on the site are not used because of cost implications. In general it would appear that there are no real issues with the website as it stands. If some buttons do not work, they will be removed – Q&A does work, ‘to join’ button at the top leads to a 404 page and has been disconnected – there is a ‘to join’ at the bottom. All other links have been checked.  PG reiterated that advertising costs have been queried through Murcia Today. Some adverts are out of date and are managed by Murcia Today. If we have no control of advertising, we have no control of charging.  Those present had no wish to pursue the matter of a new website.  The issue with the current site is that it was not monitored properly and loads of stuff had been loaded on to it which had a ‘sell by date’ and was not cleared off. In the past the CRA website had been monitored by a couple of people. Part of a forum so mistakes were picked up quickly and fixed.  At a point when the website needed an overhaul the whole site was ‘trashed’ by handing it over to a couple of guys who ran a website business from Sector A who eventually did a moonlight with €800 of CRA funds

and left the CRA without a website. As a result a previous committee had handed over the

building of a website to Murcia Today who administer some issues for us with subsequent charges.


7.Report of 2025 Group

No actual report received but see questions under AOB.


Alison had reported that she was planning a Valentine’s Evening for 14 February but doubted

whether it would be viable, depending upon Covid Restrictions at the time. She was also planning a murder mystery evening on 15 March – although this may have similar possible limitations.

9.Reports from the Gardening Groups

None received

10.Any Other Business

10.1.Nigel’s Points

  • Can you please share the legal advice, referred to in the “letter to membership”, with the

committee so that we can satisfy ourselves that there are no legal obstacles to the route that is

being taken.  The strategy for CRA is being directed by Gerardo as per the meetings early in

  1. Until Rambla resolved nothing will happen. Gerardo has said focus on Round Table and

resolve Rambla then move onto other elements – roads, lighting etc. CRA are being led by the

C Team of experts to involve Ayuntamiento, Region and CHS.  There are no legal obstacles,

progress is being made including investigation into cases currently moving through the Courts

2)The same letter refers to voting for the committee en bloc.  You are fully aware that Alan, on

two occasions has made proposals that members are elected individually,  As far as I am aware

these proposals have not been discussed within the committee.  They should be as they

fundamentally change the process. Once again, this could be done at the meeting on Monday

and accepted or dismissed.  The process of election is in the Constitution.  For the purposes of

what is required the co-opted members need regularising.  Formal AGM will be in June when

each committee and/or the Constitution can be voted upon.  Democratic individual vote not

required at this time.

3)Nowhere, do I see a list of elected members seeking re-election,  Is this an omission or is there

a reason for this?  Elected members are not seeking re-election at this time – they are not co-

opted and will be seeking re-election in June.

4)The following comments relate to the “fee proposal DFV 231121 reworked” document : It is

good to have Option C which is the do nothing option, however the addition of the words

“and watch Camposol deteriorate”, although true,  should be perhaps be removed as

unnecessary as there are no corresponding comments on the other two options.  It was

appreciated that Option C had been added to NJ document, this was to provide clarification

within the voting form – Options A and B had been covered by the document.

5)CRA membership : According to the figures provided by Gordon after the last meeting, CRA

currently represents, at best, 19% of properties on Camposol, or less than one in five

properties. I appreciate that the recent effort has been to increase individual numbers.

However, 1 in 5 properties is not a lot and I wonder if we should amend our focus to try and

increase the percentage of properties that we represent. I would appreciate your thoughts on

this.   As per item 5 above, membership is measured in bodies.

6)Relevance of CRA : It seems that the CRA is being sidelined in relation to planning activities

on Camposol. Two examples are:  A) the recent meeting between the Camposol Business association and the Town Hall at the bridge. If we are the representatives of the residents, we should at least be involved in discussions such as this. It is all well and good having photos taken by the bridge, but unless we are involved in the discussions, there is limited value. In May we were advised to serve an official notice on the Town Hall, which I understand has now happened. What is the follow up and how do we become involved in these discussions?

  1. B) There are monthly meetings on Camposol which discuss future plans for Camposol. The

business association and other elected guests are invited to these meetings, which are attended

by the Town Hall. CRA is not invited. Once again, we are unable to influence these discussions. Do you have any plans as to how we can become relevant in this type of important activity?

We must remember that the prime objective of the CRA is to improve living conditions within

Camposol. Over the years CRA has been sidelined many times.  On these issues we have notified

the Ayuntamiento and received no response. Similarly matters have been raised by Gerardo who is also awaiting responses from Mazarron. PG has suggested that 2025 team should be negotiating with business association since presumably they are also looking to matters for the future.  We have not been approached by the association to join forces. Discussions surrounding the bridge have been subject of meeting in September with another suggested meeting in November (which did not happen) movement on this matter clearly with the Ayuntamiento.  PG will ask Gerardo to follow up. Noted again that all 5 options for dealing with the rambla have been declared unviable and further investigation required and no information available as to what the Ayuntamiento intend.

7)The C team : We all appreciate that the C team and Gerardo in particular, have been very

useful in highlighting the issue of the Rambla. The situation remains that CRA has not

developed a strategy, which will inform the type and level of support needed from the C

team. The last written advice that we received from them was, as far as I know, in May, some 7

months ago. It does seem that the tail is wagging the dog, in the sense that Gerardo appears

to be deciding CRA strategy. There may of course be other information that has not been

shared with the committee? I assume that the requested information about costs and

outstanding hours available, will be available and presented at the meeting.

The strategy is to use C Team who will amend focus as and when required – they are working in

accordance with their experience on similar issues elsewhere. Maura, having already followed

through these processes, has recommended 20k per annum for 12 months. Advice is generally

received by email which are circulated to all committee members. Every time a question is asked,there will be a charge.  

10.2.Alan’s Points

1)Gerado has been doing some great work and is moving matters forward. However, we need to

understand what this is costing us. Can we have an estimate of the additional fees we owe him

for this work. ie. After the 8k Euro (I think that was the figure) spend that Colin has identified.

See response to similar point made by Nigel

2)In light of the increase in Covid on Camposol. It seems sensible to either delay the AGM until

say February or hold an online AGM. A discussion at the meeting would seem sensible. My

vote would be for an online meeting due to the urgency and need to legitimise the current

committee.  See discussions under item 5.  Zoom meeting for an AGM not practical so assume

Alan intends mail voting. As recommended by Gerardo we are offering postal opportunity in

order to deal with the matters as quickly as possible.  Because of potential seasonal delays,

the decision was taken to send out now with deadline  5 or 7 days. Spreadsheets prepared

with lists of 200 members tranches GC and CJM to continue with arrangements.  DJ

suggested no reply indicates acceptance – and I can’t remember whether we decided to do

this or not!!

3)I have issued a number of emails, but have not received any responses to the questions or

proposals contained in them. This is both disrespectful and not very professional. I would ask

the Chair to raise the questions and proposals and discuss them at this meeting. At the

moment I feel ignored and this is not the way to engender a whole team approach. Please do

not ask me to resend the emails as I have done this on several occasions.   CJM has

endeavoured to pick up questions from recent emails, to be covered within these minutes.  It

may be that some questions/proposals have been overlooked or are not viewed as requiring

response. If it involves C Team, CRA does not have finances to invite C Team to meetings and

any questions placed with them will be costing CRA money.

4)Website : For clarification, the offer from the tech company on Sector A was to provide one-

off  training on how to upload content on to the website and day to day content management.

I do not ask them to host the website nor provide technical support.  Clearly Phil wants to do

this himself. That’s his decision and goes against the committee decision to delegate the task.

Meanwhile the website continues to be out of date and to a degree has been superseded by

the successful 2025 Facebook page.  However, I will make a suggestion and that is to avoid

further time and effort let’s develop a new website. I understand Dave has done this

successfully for his business. The amount of money we would need to spend would be

worthwhile. Finally in an effort to build bridges, I would volunteer to project manage the task.

This would allow  Phil to concentrate on the ‘legal’ matters.  By way of experience I have

project managed significant IT projects including setting up a 100 desk contact service centre. 

See comments under item 6.

 10.3.Future Committee Meetings

Cohesiveness – We should all be tolerant of each other, we are all individuals who are busy.  Each team should be reporting to Committee. In order to be clear emails should include deadline for responses and ideally keep on topic – if nothing received, from one member it will have to be taken as ‘no comment’.

10 January subject to venue.   No-one really likes Zoom meetings but these may have to be considered for during January.

10.4.Outcome from Legal Clinics

Saturday morning had been successful in terms of highlighting further issues for residents,

including legal position of properties in the rambla;  Calle Punica where properties are occupied

without escrituras and not registered on cadastral although the properties are listed but owners

not named and no evidence of previous ownership of the land and movement between owners,

IBI will be chargeable on all years missed, including fines;  also the problems of turistico properties where re-zoning will be required either per house or by Polygono, technically the Tourist Board can request record of tourism receipts for those properties.


For clarification, delegated work includes : AGM and meetings – Gordon and Jayne;  future

ventures – Nigel and team;  fundraising – Alison and team;  past problems ; Phil,  Gordon and the

C Team;  Membership –  Gordon;   Finance Control –  Colin Barton;  Legal Clinic – Phil, Gordon and Gerado.  There are other tasks which spring up from time to time.

 Next meetings 10 and 31 January 2022

Meeting closed 16.51